Podcast 63 – To Judge or Not to Judge


What happens when you merge the worlds of doctor and personal trainer?
What do you find at the crossroads of medicine, theory and practice?

The Relentless Roger and the Caveman Doctor (RRCD) Podcast:  Simplifying complex issues for healthy living


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The podcast exists to take our daily efforts in the physical world and distill usable information for you, the listener.

In Episode #63 Roger and Dr. Champ Discuss:


  1. Maryann

    Wow, “Physician, heal thyself”. I certainly would not take weight loss advice from a physician who is overweight.

  2. Michael

    iTunes has already had #64 “Evaluating Your Vices” for some time.

    #64 is still in my mind because I heard it only a few days ago. It was pretty interesting. I wonder: have you seen Dr. Cate’s book “Deep Nutrition”? She’s very good on the notion of your food coming out of a whole ecosystem. IIRC, she says she thinks of it as embodying information — about the whole environment from which it came. While she’s definitely low-carb — good for her — she says, what I think is quite right, that merely looking at food in terms of its macronutrient ratio is an impoverished understanding. But this is what most people have been taught to do by the mainstream (and by nutritional labels). How many calories? How many grams of fat? She says people used to have much fuller ways of thinking about food. I’m sure she’s right: AFAICT, they did used to speak of “the summer butter”, the fish from the River So-and-so, and so on. People still do to some extent, but not so much.

    On the groups of people being progressively more or less “vegetarian”: I didn’t notice any mention of cereal grains or pulses. From what you said they’d, as it were, tried to construct a view like a graph with X and Y axes: increasing/decreasing meat along one axis and increasing/decreasing vegetables and fruit along the other. If so, that begs a lot of questions. They seemed to have tried to allow for smoking and so on, but isn’t consumption of cereals and pulses a huge issue in the overall balance of a diet? If I’m getting the right impression, isn’t it possible that the people put down as eating “high meat” were also eating a lot of refined grains and French fries and perhaps drinking sodas, too?

    I did wonder if the quantity and type of grains could account for the counter-intuitive information on the girth of the participants. I know there’s not a lot of gold-standard evidence on low-carb diets and weight-loss — this is why Gary Taubes wants such experiments done, of course — but there’s a lot of testimony on the efficacy of low-carb diets going right back to the nineteenth century. So vegetarians, and even more vegans, who pretty much must eat grains together with pulses, wouldn’t be expected to be that slim. (Actually, I don’t think all are — and what the body composition of those who are is like is a pertinent question.)

    But what I wondered was this: could the vegetarians/vegans be eating mostly unrefined grains? While there’s a lot of talk from that community about how healthy their diet is, my guess would be that they do have a certain level of nervousness about cutting out what they must realise, even if they don’t admit even to themselves, are nutritious foods. I think they probably tell themselves that as long as they eat “whole foods” there’ll be no problem. I think that’s really questionable, but I think that’s what they think. Do you think it possible that if you stick to brown rice, bulgar wheat, and all the rest of it, and don’t eat sugar or drink sodas that you’ve got a much better chance of staying slim even on a high-carb diet. My guess is that you have.

    I think if someone held a gun to my head and said I had to eat bread, then I’d choose white bread. I think if you ate mostly meat and fish and vegetables and plenty of good fats, then a small piece of white bread would do you less damage than wholegrain (no fibre to rip up your insides). This seemed to be what the slim and fit Italians you mentioned in an earlier podcast that you saw on your holiday were doing. But maybe wholegrains explain why some people are slimmer than you’d expect.

  3. Rob Turner

    I can’t remember if it was this podcast where you talked about Perlmutter’s alchemy comment. Anyway, it reminded me of something I’d heard on the Latest In Paleo podcast. He played an excerpt from this youtube video about the nutrient density of wild food vs farm grown food in episode 88. The nutrient differences are pretty crazy, it’s not just a little bit more, it’s multitudes more in a lot of cases: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E9ySAPtMfw.

    By next episode I fully expect you to be foraging in the parks of Philidelphia. Maybe you can lobby to have them setup something like this there: http://www.npr.org/blogs/thesalt/2012/02/29/147668557/seattles-first-urban-food-forest-will-be-free-to-forage.

  4. Maryann

    I love the idea of 4 exercises done in rounds. So, I will share what I chose to do today:
    4 rounds of
    8 strict pushups
    25 pause squats
    25 x 50# glute bridges
    15 x 35 pound deadlift to overhead press

    Afterwards I went for a 1.5 mile run / 1.7 mile walk.

  5. Lyndsey

    I wanted to share my new project to get people to grow or source their own food http://www.foodliberator.com I’m trying to design it for beginning gardeners. I personally lean more towards permaculture than traditional gardening. My interest in ecology is what lead me to Paleo a few years ago. I had already given up soy, corn, & wheat for political/ecological reasons and discovered mass-farmed subsidized commodity crops were bad for my body as well as the environment.
    I continue to be surprised that people don’t know about the soil food web. Listen to https://archive.org/details/agroinnovations_132_soil_food_web Dr Elaine Ingham does great interview about how our plants need microbes to assimilate nutrients. What plants need from soil for optimal health is eerily similar to gut terroir in humans.

    1. cavemandoctor (Post author)

      This is great! Thanks!

  6. Steve Bergman

    Regarding the low fat/low carb “experiment”, the very 1st thing to criticize is the “n=2” aspect. Beyond that, the poor “design”. (I’m being kind.) And only after that should we discuss the particulars. The “experiment” was doomed to uselessness before it began.

  7. Meesha

    Hey guys! I’ve also listened to the latest podcast, #64.

    I use essential oils as part of my home health care regimen and when you mentioned diterpenes, my ears perked up! Terpenes are one type of compound found in essential oils. Here is a website with a good overview. http://www.cyberlipid.org/simple/simp0004.htm I don’t believe they are anything you would necessarily want to filter out of your coffee.

    Hope you are up with a new podcast soon! I always enjoy listening to you guys.


  8. curious george

    I knew popcast was over when caveman doctor moved to Pittsburgh. ha!

  9. Dan

    Where’d you guys go? You quit podcasting?


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